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 Post subject: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:38 pm 
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Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
Rebel: 250
Country: U.S.A.
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City: Las VLX-as
I just can't have nice things...A.K.A. the aftermath of "Then & Now" ( viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32038 )

I'm beyond totally smurfed.

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Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
Somebody rifled your saddlebags? It really sucks to be ripped off..

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2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:42 pm 
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Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
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City: Las VLX-as
Nope...enlarge the pics, that's fire extinguisher agent coating the bike. I had an electrical fire under the seat on the way ot work this morning. Bike's dead now.

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"Ride Safe, Chop Safer"
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
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http://shadow-shack.20m.com


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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:09 pm 
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Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
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OWWWW OK I did think the bike looked dirty..but didn't see any fire damage.
Buddy of mine had a fire on his 03 K1200 BMW like mine.. Under the left fairing Major damage to electrics and plastic stuff. The PO had installed an extra power outlet and the wiring got chafed and shorted out. Another example of how easy it is to screw things up when you start modifying wiring.

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2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
Rebel: 250
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City: Las VLX-as
Yep this was electrical, it smelled like burnt insulation. What really irks me is that while I might be more tolerant had this been a 16th owner botched rewire job...but this was the bike I bought new and left stock.

I'll tear it down this weekend to assess the inner damage. It stopped running so I fear some of the expensive bits like the CDI module may be damaged...so far I merely disconnected the battery so it wouldn't "reignite" and the battery box was melted.

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"Ride Safe, Chop Safer"
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
Image
http://shadow-shack.20m.com


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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:00 am 
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Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
It's surprising how much plastic there is on a modern bike. Fires do a lot of damage quite quickly. In my previous life I used to investigate fires looking for the point of origin. If the damage is not total, you can often spot the original problem. On a vehicle, mechanical chafing of insulation is often the culprit. Your experience and my buddy's are good reminders not to ignore any suspicious looking wiring harness damage spotted during routine inspections

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2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:54 pm 
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Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
Rebel: 250
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City: Las VLX-as
Duckster wrote:
Your experience and my buddy's are good reminders not to ignore any suspicious looking wiring harness damage spotted during routine inspections


That's another issue...a "routine inspection" probably wouldn't have caught this considering where the melting damage is that I've seen so far. The battery on the Shadow is a tricky access affair, and depending on the choice of exhaust the rear head pipe can either hinder or help the battery access procedure. Stock, it's a tight fit and a tricky affair the first couple of times you try it. Suffice it to say, having owned five (and still in possession of four) in the past 20 years I've gotten rather adept at the procedure, but even so it's only something that is done once every few years for a cheap battery and much less often with a better battery.

That, and it's not something you want to fiddle with after a ride (re: that hot rear head pipe ;) ).

Also noteworthy, the fuse box rests against the outside of the battery box below the ignition relay, and while it is supposed to snap into place more often than not it is held in place by the plastic side cover that snaps on over it. Again, not something you fiddle with after a ride.

Furthermore, the document stash area is behind the battery box/behind that hot head pipe, so you really don't want to do anything that attracts the LEOs of you get to try maneuvering in that tight area with the hot head pipe to retrieve your info.

To add to the "let's avoid the inside of this bike as much as possible" factor, the seat is held on by two cleverly concealed Allen bolts that are designed to fall into the frame innards once removed and/or installed, never to be seen again...unless you learn the trick that entails a piece of duct tape wrapped around the head to grip the Allen wrench. Even so, they line up once in ten to twelve tries before you can actually start threading them.

Getting it up on a lift is also a special trick (much like it is with the Rebel and the under-the-frame head pipes) because the left and right undercarriage tubes are uneven heights relative to the ground...you have to carefully place a piece of 2x4 under the right side tube while being careful not to allow the wood to contact the water pump and lower rad-hose that both jut below said tube. With all that factored in, routine inspections of this area tend to become far less than routine and more of a special occasion.

All that said, the downside to owning a Shadow is they can be tricky to work on (unless you reduce it to skeletal junk-bobberz dood), but the good news is they don't give you any real trouble until you've owned it for over 20 years (lest anyone forget, this is the bike I just replaced a rear head gasket on in late May/early June). :D

Suffice it to say, owning Shadows has made me appreciate the utter simplicity of a 250 Rebel, where anyone that owns a few tools can easily access just about anything they want to see without cracking open the engine block.
:bounce1:

_________________
"Ride Safe, Chop Safer"
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
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http://shadow-shack.20m.com


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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
Rebel: 250
Country: U.S.A.
State/Province: NV
City: Las VLX-as
Partial disassembly revealed some serious ugliness. Here's the most likely culprit, the stator-to-main wiring harness connection:

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Some damage to the battery box:

Image

Here's the real ugliness, where the fire spread up towards:

Image

Image

...and the big heart-breaker: the replacement seat I recently hunted down to replace my torn one (Honda doesn't make these anymore).

Image

_________________
"Ride Safe, Chop Safer"
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
Image
http://shadow-shack.20m.com


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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Wow, so sorry to see that! At least a fire extinguisher was available. Do you carry one, or was this the help from a Good Samaritan?
Also, is there insurance on it that would cover this? I don't know these matters, but it conceivably could be covered under a homeowner policy. With the photos you just posted here a while back it would be easy to show a claims adjuster the pristine condition!
Once again, my condolences.


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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
Rebel: 250
Country: U.S.A.
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City: Las VLX-as
I was able to roll into a McDonald's parking lot and acquired the extinguisher inside. Fortunately I received formal training in the use of such items as nobody there knew how to use one. I was gracious enough after the fact to explain to the staff the acronym of PASS:

Pull the pin
Aim the hose at the base of the flame
Squeeze the handle
Sweep the hose side to side

I have full coverage on the bike ($250 deductible), I'm just waiting for an adjuster to make an appointment to meet with me to assess the damage. I told them I would be partially disassembling the bike so as to clean all the corrosive extinguisher element off the bike thus preventing future issues as that stuff is not friendly with electrical components. Let me tell you...I couldn't get enough water in there to clean it all out while it was assembled, it just kept coming and coming. Once I got the eat off I was able to get rid of all of it.

_________________
"Ride Safe, Chop Safer"
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
Image
http://shadow-shack.20m.com


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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:12 pm 
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Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
You obviously got to the fire quickly and the burn pattern localized the origin pretty well on the right side of the bike. Not being familiar with the bike, I can't get too much out of the closeup pictures as to the point of origin. Typically you look for damage to spread upward in a Vee pattern and for very intense heat damage at the origin. You can also get a lot of heat damage up high after the fire has reached a critical mass and a lot of heat is being released quickly. The late fire damage is usually more uniform in intensity and clearly working on the fuel from the outside inwards. Heat damage at the point of origin is typically very intensely localized and shows more signs of working from the inside of a device conductor or connector in the case of an electrical fire. That kind of damage seems evident in your second last picture, although I can't be sure exactly what I'm looking at there.

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2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: Son of a ##### !!!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
Rebel: 250
Country: U.S.A.
State/Province: NV
City: Las VLX-as
The pic in question is merely a close up of the prior pic, rotated 90ยบ. It's the fuel pump and various wiring that runs alongside it.

Which probably explains why it shut down on its own...

_________________
"Ride Safe, Chop Safer"
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
Image
http://shadow-shack.20m.com


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