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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:14 am 
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If I remember, I run it dry, pull the plug and dump some oil in. Pull the cord a couple times to spread it around. Reinstall plug. When I forget to do that, I put in some stabilizer, SeaFoam, and canned gas-premixed, no alcohol. It's hard to start sometimes, but it's worked for nine years so far without any work on it.

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:04 am 
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Great! Thanks for the quick reply. Mine's actually still running (gave it to my son who has a lot more patience for dicking around with balky motors than I have any more), but I do love how my 4-stroke starts. How it runs? no comparison. Its kinda like my Honda 9.9 on my boat: starts great, trolls at idle speed very well. But truly seems to lack the power of my old 9.9 Suzuki smoker, and don't get me started on the difference in weight.
brent

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:44 pm 
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My weedeater has a choke, which is really helpful the first minutes.

As far as the marine 2 stroke oil goes in my Rebel, I think I must have added a bit too much. Engine revved super smooth. Usually it smooths out at 3,3k and 6,6k rpm, this time it went straight to 9k rpm without too much vibrations. My last fuelup was 10-12MPG higher than expected.
I still need to play around with the doses, to get the perfect mixture. The last mix was at around 175:1.


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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:04 pm 
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Meelee there is no logical reason or physical basis to think any of what you are claiming is true. Adding a trace amount of oil to the fuel will not change the nature of the Rebel's engine vibes and the bike's resonant response to those vibes. Vibes are caused by unbalanced rotating and reciprocating masses, which are identical with or without more oil.
As to 10-12 more MPG.. Fuel mileage is affected by many factors, and unless you compare 2 tanks of fuel under identical conditions your variation means nothing. I'll be impressed when you do a scientific test.

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:57 pm 
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Well, there have been many possible causes of less vibrations,
When you say the above, you're basically saying that I don't have less vibrations on the engine, because you can't find the mathematical formula for what's happening,
Well,
There most definitely are less vibrations, but what the exact reason of that is, I'll let others figure that out!

It has already been mentioned before that:
1- better lubrication of the top of the cylinderwalls, which could be the main reason of less vibrations.
2: the mixture could be running somewhat leaner, which also makes the engine run less jerky
3- the oil to lubricate the cylinder walls, might better lubricate or seal the valves.

I'd encourage you to drop an ounce or two of two stroke in your tank, and experience the results yourself.
If you want scientific proof, if you own a rebel, you might very well be able to find the results you desire by doing your own tests.

I'm not here to impress anyone,
I'm just here to share the results of the tests I've conducted...


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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:14 pm 
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There have been many discussions here about different oils and fuel additives. Some people feel very strongly that there is no benefit to putting anything in your tank besides straight regular grade gasoline. Others feel just as strongly that there is a benefit- look up "SeaFoam" if you have a few evenings to kill.

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:41 pm 
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Fridgitator wrote:
look up "SeaFoam" if you have a few evenings to kill.


Or simply scroll back to page one of this thread.

Shadow Shack wrote:
2 stroke oil: it's the new SeaFoam. :D


:lol: :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:17 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:20 pm 
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MeeLee wrote:
Well, there have been many possible causes of less vibrations,
When you say the above, you're basically saying that I don't have less vibrations on the engine, because you can't find the mathematical formula for what's happening,


Not at all... I'm saying the inherent mechanical imbalance of the 360 degree twin is unchanged by what you did, and that's the main source of the trademark Rebel buzz.
MeeLee wrote:
Well,
There most definitely are less vibrations, but what the exact reason of that is, I'll let others figure that out!


You add oil to the gas hoping to reduce vibration and then you tell us that you did reduce vibration.. How do you know? The butt dynomometer? Sounds like confirmation bias to me. its all touchy feely..

MeeLee wrote:
It has already been mentioned before that:
1- better lubrication of the top of the cylinderwalls, which could be the main reason of less vibrations.

Please explain the mechanism of this reduction. Nothing above the rings touches the cylinder wall on a 4 stroke, and the piston below the rings is continuously coated in 100% oil. Just as the rings scrape oil down the cylinder wall on the down stroke, they would also scrape up whatever trace of oil was left on the upper cylinder walls on the compression stroke. On a 2 stroke the oily gas coats the underside of the pistons and lower cylinder walls to provide the only oil film the pistons have.. the 4 stroke setup is much better for piston lubrication as evidenced by the typical engine life of a 4 stroke vs a 2 stroke.

MeeLee wrote:
2: the mixture could be running somewhat leaner, which also makes the engine run less jerky

If you mean by "less Jerky" making less power, then you may be right about that, although at the ratios you suggest the effect would be minimal.

MeeLee wrote:
3- the oil to lubricate the cylinder walls, might better lubricate or seal the valves.

And most likely it would not have any effect at all. If it did seal the valves better it would just add back some of the "jerkiness" of making more power.

MeeLee wrote:
I'd encourage you to drop an ounce or two of two stroke in your tank, and experience the results yourself.
If you want scientific proof, if you own a rebel, you might very well be able to find the results you desire by doing your own tests.


I have no rational reason to think there would be any benefit whatsoever. I could certainly run a mileage check on a closed course that I fully expect would show no significant improvement in fuel economy, but it would be hard to test for less vibration without an elaborate test setup.

MeeLee wrote:
I'm not here to impress anyone,
I'm just here to share the results of the tests I've conducted...


Except that you are not sharing any results at all,,, no real evidence of anything, just your wishful thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:26 pm 
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Hey, I did my own ad hoc experiment today. Riding with some buddies and I stopped for gas, got talking, and accidentally stuck 1.4l of Diesel fuel in my Bandit before noticing the mistake. SO, I just topped 'er up with gasoline and away we went. Tank holds 19 litres. Made no real difference that I could detect. No smoke, no nasty smell. I DID experience a reduction in mileage in the 5% range, but I attribute that in part to the ethanol in the Regular gas (all the station had) as opposed to the ethanol free High Octane I usually use.
Think I'll write it up for the Journal of Irreproduceable Results.
brent

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:19 pm 
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wheezeburnt wrote:
Hey, I did my own ad hoc experiment today. Riding with some buddies and I stopped for gas, got talking, and accidentally stuck 1.4l of Diesel fuel in my Bandit before noticing the mistake. SO, I just topped 'er up with gasoline and away we went. Tank holds 19 litres. Made no real difference that I could detect. No smoke, no nasty smell. I DID experience a reduction in mileage in the 5% range, but I attribute that in part to the ethanol in the Regular gas (all the station had) as opposed to the ethanol free High Octane I usually use.
Think I'll write it up for the Journal of Irreproduceable Results.
brent



Is Diesel oilier than gas? I notice at gas stations that there is a waxy residue around where the nozzle of the Diesel hose goes. I've never owned a Diesel vehicle.

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:10 pm 
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Diesel is also referred to as #2 fuel OIL. It is in fact a very light oil. Works great as penetrating oil.

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:18 pm 
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Fridgitator wrote:
Is Diesel oilier than gas?


Considerably so. It very much is the consistency of the vegetable oil that many people are using to run a lot of diesel-based experiments.

Remember that vegetable oil is actually what Robert Diesel had intended to run his invention on-- he envisioned tractors and busses usable even in countries that could not produce or cost-effectively import their own crude oil. Had he not died remarkably young, likely that's just what we'd have had.

Those left behind to man his company didn't wait for the casket to get covered over good before accepting an oil company's money to tinker around and see if the engine could be made to run on what was at that time an honest-to-God "waste product" with no market whatsoever left over from the production of gasoline. It was becoming expensive to dispose of.

And all these years later, we pay roughly 18 percent more than we pay for gasoline for the privilege of disposing of it for them.

Amazing, isn't it?

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:48 pm 
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Yeah, but does it repair burnt valves like SeaFoam does?

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:59 pm 
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Duckster wrote:
Diesel is also referred to as #2 fuel OIL. It is in fact a very light oil. Works great as penetrating oil.


Exactly right! Also used as home heating fuel. When I had an oil furnace I almost forgot to fill it one winter, but the delivery guy still showed up when I called him around supper time (he was on his way home and only lived a few miles away). He told me that in a pinch I could use diesel fuel for my furnace instead of #2. The difference was the price, diesel fuel costs more than #2. I asked what the difference was and he replied that diesel was a little more refined.

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:04 am 
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So, in the absence of my totally subjective (and frankly meaningless) analysis, what would you folks have ANTICIPATED the effect would be of mixing 1.4 litres of diesel in with17.6 litres of gasoline (and 10% of ethanol), and running it in a 4 stroke inline four fuel injected 1250cc engine?
brent

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:38 am 
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wheezeburnt wrote:
So, in the absence of my totally subjective (and frankly meaningless) analysis, what would you folks have ANTICIPATED the effect would be of mixing 1.4 litres of diesel in with17.6 litres of gasoline (and 10% of ethanol), and running it in a 4 stroke inline four fuel injected 1250cc engine?
brent



Well, of course I'd expect to see less vibration and maybe 10% better fuel economy than usual.
But seriously folks, between the alcohol and light fuel oil, it would look a lot like a heavy dose of Seafoam. Probably make for a stinky exhaust, maybe a little smoke and squeaky clean injectors.. :D

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:10 pm 
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Duckster wrote:
it would look a lot like a heavy dose of Seafoam.


A heavy dose of SeaFoam...isn't that the same thing as Liquid Schwartz? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvMiZCyA2xc

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Jim: Next time I'm out on the bike, I'll leave the earplugs out and listen for squeaking injectors. Dang, pal, now you got me worried. rofl
brent

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 Post subject: Re: a little 2 stroke oil in the fuel
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:23 pm 
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wheezeburnt wrote:
So, in the absence of my totally subjective (and frankly meaningless) analysis, what would you folks have ANTICIPATED the effect would be of mixing 1.4 litres of diesel in with17.6 litres of gasoline (and 10% of ethanol), and running it in a 4 stroke inline four fuel injected 1250cc engine?
brent


About the same as a massive octane spike, with a tiny bit of added stink to the exhaust (and possibly added burning to the eyes, if Canada has been doing to Diesel what the US has been doing for the last decade or so. I don't know what it is, but get the exhaust around your eyes, and you'll swear you're burning bleach! )

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