It is currently Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:25 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Apr 11, 2013
Motorcycle: 2005 Rebel 250
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
Could you guys educate me on the cons of not using first gear? When I'm tooling around my neighborhood, it just seems like its much easier/smoother to stop/start in second at stop signs and lights.

Am I ripping angels wings off each time I do this?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:13 pm 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
Just wearing your clutch perhaps a little more than necessary. that's the main downside. That and lugging the engine a little more than you need to.

_________________
2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:19 pm 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: Sep 9, 2004
Motorcycle: Suzuki Gsf1250
Rebel: 450
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Rusagonis
Used to do this with a CX500. So much torque in lower gears, and such a short first gear, I was just getting tired of shifting to second halfway across the intersection.

_________________
"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem" G.Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mar 19, 2010
Motorcycle: Yamaha Midnight Virago 920
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: MI
City: Near Ann Arbor
Its not something I would do on the Rebel.
The chances of lugging are just too great.

_________________
'87 Rebel
'02 Silver Wing 600
'83 Virago 920
'61 Buick


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Motorcycle: 2014 CB500XA
Rebel: None
Country: USA
State/Province: AZ
City: Green Valley
+1

_________________
John, 2014 CB500XA (Daily Rider), 2009 CRF230L (L'il Red Piglet), 1989 NX250 - sold, 2001 Rebel - sold
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:27 pm 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: Sep 9, 2004
Motorcycle: Suzuki Gsf1250
Rebel: 450
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Rusagonis
I guess to be a responsible poster, I should say that I'm not sure I'd do it with a 250 rebel. Never ridden one, but I'd imagine they're a little less 'torquey' than the cx500, and certainly less powerful overall, not to mention having (perhaps) a more delicate clutch. The other posters are right, I think. The only way to avoid a lot of clutch slipping is to lug the engine; the only way to avoid lugging the engine is to use lots of clutch slippage.
I'm not convinced you'll destroy your engine or your clutch, but you're probably not doing it any favours.

_________________
"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem" G.Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:12 pm 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
Why did those silly Honda engineers put that low first gear on the Rebel anyway?... What would they know about anything? :D

_________________
2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Motorcycle: 2014 CB500XA
Rebel: None
Country: USA
State/Province: AZ
City: Green Valley
Duckster wrote:
Why did those silly Honda engineers put that low first gear on the Rebel anyway?... What would they know about anything? :D


Some of us live on steep hills. :D

_________________
John, 2014 CB500XA (Daily Rider), 2009 CRF230L (L'il Red Piglet), 1989 NX250 - sold, 2001 Rebel - sold
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:15 pm 
Offline
Forum Administrator

Joined: Jul 25, 2003
Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: GA
City: Vidalia
The first gear, as alluded to, is extremely short. It's extremely short for a reason:

There's no power from this engine.

Certainly, that's a bit of an over-statement, but there is, in all reality, very little power. 17 or so ponies, and extremely low torque. The engine needs that low-low-low first gear to get the bike rolling safely (where "safely" means "free of undue damage to the engine and other components").

Yes; once you become proficient at take-offs, you will find yourself shifting halfway through a left-hand turn at take off, but honestly, that's really not the obstacle that a lot of folks seem to think it is.

As the engine has very little power, tricks of the transmission (called "gearing" by those who know more than I do :lol: ) are used to harness the available power as best as possible. The short first get lets the tiny little engine get the machine moving easily and quickly and launches it up into the higher revs, which is where you'll find most of the available power to be (it's an inline twin, after all).

"Skipping" first does a couple of things, none of them good:

It's eliminates that "I have to shift in three seconds" thing. But it does that by slowing down your take off as second doesn't really have the grunt to propel you from a stop up to the next shift point in anything resembling a hurry.

It encourages far more clutch slipping and riding than is really required in order to "ease" the load of takeoff onto second gear. Smoother start, less chance of stalling, less of that weird metailic rattle--

that brings me to my primary point:

that weird metallic rattle. That weird metallic rattle is your valves under way too much load. When that happens, the tend to burn. When they burn, the tend to get far too hot, making it easier to crack one. It also makes it easier to deform one.

All in all:

Yes; many people do it. There are even machines out there (like the CBX500 that Wheezeburnt mentioned) which have no problems whatsoever doing it: a combination of the available grunt off the low end and a suprisingly low entry point into second gear.

The Rebel isn't one of these bikes. The small little mill needs a bit of a "push" to get you rolling without straining the clutch or the engine; that super-short first gear provides that push.

Hope that helps. ;)

_________________

Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:04 am 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
So Duke, what you're saying is those Honda Engineers DID KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING after all?

_________________
2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:06 am 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: Sep 9, 2004
Motorcycle: Suzuki Gsf1250
Rebel: 450
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Rusagonis
Duckster wrote:
So Duke, what you're saying is those Honda Engineers DID KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING after all?


Well, Jim, if THAT were the case, they'd still be in business..... oh, wait. ;)
(you danged engineers always sticking up for each other... rofl )

_________________
"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem" G.Carlin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Skipping first gear
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Apr 11, 2013
Motorcycle: 2005 Rebel 250
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll continue to use first gear!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: