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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Oct 25, 2012
Motorcycle: Honda Rebel 250
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: OK
City: OKC
Duckster wrote:
Just for the sake of argument, No offence intended.
in an emergency swerve (which is the maneuver you describe) you can only change your original course by a few degrees at best. We know that motorcycles turn in two steps (lean first, then turn) so a sudden collision avoidance turn is only going to be a small turn.
If you had time to turn 90 degrees from the hazard for example, you would have also have had time to stop , which is almost always preferable to swerving if it is possible. Therefore, your course through the ditch was pretty much a done deal once you decided to turn instead of stop. I would question whether it was really possible for you to take anything other than a shallow diagonal path into that ditch. Now the fact you were on a dirt bike and had experience riding dirtbikes through ditches at similar shallow angles may certainly have helped you ride it out, but I believe your average street rider would have been on a very similar trajectory having made the decision to take the ditch.

Having learned to ride on a standard street bike, I also learned early to get up on the pegs when facing a tirebusting impact, Not only do the knees absorb the shock and spare the butt, but standing up may prevent the rider from being pitched off. I don't know if the average newbie street rider would be aware of that or not. I know it used to be taught in the BSF, but is not any more. (riding over obstacles is too dangerous to demonstrate I guess)



No offense taken... If I had been in a straightaway, you are right, I would not be approaching the ditch anywhere near 90 degrees. However, as explained, I was in a curve. Granted, the curve plus the swerve did not equal a true 90 degree entrance to the ditch either. It was probably more in the range of 65 to 80 degrees, just guessing. No way to really know now.

To better explain, I was coming over a hill, I was in the right lane (there is no actual lane marking on this road, but i was somewhere on the right) which was curving to my right (it is not a "true" 2-lane road... it's wide enough for 2 cars to safely pass, but not as wide as a typical street). The kid came out of a driveway on my right, but I couldn't honestly say if he came out 10 ft, 15 ft, 20 ft, or whatever in front of me. I just know that there was just enough time to react to miss him (and slightly clip the front tire of the bigwheel). This turned me left towards the ditch (which because of it curving to my right, if I had traveled straight without swerving at all I would have prolly hit at somewhere in the 45+ degree area) which caused me to be at a pretty good angle to the ditch but definitely not at a 90. There wasn't enough time to stop, nor to steer back hard enough to the right to stay on the road. I did, however, have just enough time to turn slightly back to the right to help decrease the angle of entry. Again, I can only guess at this point, but I would say I hit it somewhere in the 60 degree angle area. Its very possible that it could have been less than that. Since I don't have a video, all I got is my noggin to recollect it all. :( lol

The only reason I gave the Rebel 250 any credit for this particular instance, is because it's a "lighter" bike. Obviously, it's nowhere as nimble as my 500 tho. My brother, on his Harely..... not so sure how that would have turned out. I have driven his bike once... hated it. It drives like a 600 pound turd. I may be giving the Rebel more credit than it is due tho. Most of my street riding has been on Enduros and the 80's style street bikes (like my dad's old Yamaha 650 Special II, my brother's old Yamaha 400 Special, my Exciter 250, etc etc etc) in which the seating position is more upright. Not a lot of time spent on cruisers.

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Toys:
1979 Yamaha XT 500
1980 Yamaha GT 80
1983 Yamaha Exciter 250
1986 Honda Rebel 250
(8) 1979 - 1984 Honda FL250 Odysseys


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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Oct 25, 2012
Motorcycle: Honda Rebel 250
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: OK
City: OKC
Duke wrote:
Let's be completely honest here: while they are immensely popular (for reasons I've never really understood), cruisers are the least nimble and most impractical of all the bikes on the market today. :(



It's because they make you FEEL like you look REALLY cool.... :bikerthumb:

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Toys:
1979 Yamaha XT 500
1980 Yamaha GT 80
1983 Yamaha Exciter 250
1986 Honda Rebel 250
(8) 1979 - 1984 Honda FL250 Odysseys


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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Sep 9, 2004
Motorcycle: Suzuki Gsf1250
Rebel: 450
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Rusagonis
Ask your wife how cool SHE feels when she's in the pelvic exam posture......

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"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem" G.Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Jul 25, 2003
Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: GA
City: Vidalia
:rofl: :rofl:


I don't know how many are aware of this:

My father-in-law, rest his soul, was a medical doctor. When he closed his office, a great deal of his office equipment ended up mothballed in the garage at his house.

When we were cleaning out a lot of it after his passing, one of the items we ran across was an actual lithotomy table for pelvic exams. We junked the cabinet, but I kept the stirrups and the massive bars to which they are affixed: _not_ because I wanted lithotomy stirrups, but because they are _massive_, and solid stainless steel. When I need a bit of stainless for a welding project here or there, I torch off a bit or two. There is still a _lot_ of metal there.

As _most_ of you now, I'll happily assist most folks who need a bit of help with their bikes, assuming I have the time.

Now I've had those things in my possession for roughly ten years (Like I said: there was a _lot_ of steel in those bars!). It is extremely hard for me to suppress my urge to guffaw uproariously every time one of my cruiser-bound amigos picks them up (not knowing what their origins are) and announces incredulously: "Oh, Dude! These would make _sweet_ highway bars / forward controls! It's like they're just _made_ for it!"

Amen, Brother.


Amen.

:rofl:

I particularly enjoy it when they ask if I'd be interested in selling them. :lol:

_________________

Duke
"Skills must be Learned"
------ Herb Christian


"Ask your doctor if medical advice from a television commercial is right for _you_."


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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
The guys I love are the Harley boys with the highway bars that let them extend their legs out straight with the toes pointed outward on both sides.. Ideally they would have some form of apehanger bars to truly achieve the very cool "flying squirrel" riding position.

:bikerthumb: :popcorn:

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2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Oct 25, 2012
Motorcycle: Honda Rebel 250
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: OK
City: OKC
Duckster wrote:
The guys I love are the Harley boys with the highway bars that let them extend their legs out straight with the toes pointed outward on both sides.. Ideally they would have some form of apehanger bars to truly achieve the very cool "flying squirrel" riding position.

:bikerthumb: :popcorn:



My brother resembles that statement..... lol! :teehee1:

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Toys:
1979 Yamaha XT 500
1980 Yamaha GT 80
1983 Yamaha Exciter 250
1986 Honda Rebel 250
(8) 1979 - 1984 Honda FL250 Odysseys


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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Nov 24, 2012
Motorcycle: Honda
Rebel: 250
Country: United States
State/Province: CT
City: Monroe
I bought my bike without ever having driven one....first lesson was on a dirt bike in my friends yard, but next day was on my own bike....I put about 60 miles on my bike before I even took the course, but the BEST 30 miles I rode were actually DURING the course. I was fortunate enough to have an AMAZING instructor. I have become a MUCH better rider since the course because of what they taught me. I wouldn't spend too much time learning on my own...just my opinion...as I was starting to develop some bad habits that needed to be broken...


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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Joined: Oct 25, 2012
Motorcycle: Honda Rebel 250
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: OK
City: OKC
Again, I support the riding lessons.... still just seems prudent to do some off road riding afterwards to hone in a person's skills without subjecting themselves to the risks of riding in traffic....

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Toys:
1979 Yamaha XT 500
1980 Yamaha GT 80
1983 Yamaha Exciter 250
1986 Honda Rebel 250
(8) 1979 - 1984 Honda FL250 Odysseys


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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Joined: Sep 14, 2012
Motorcycle: 2009 CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: n/a
Adding to the original idea here, I got lucky and had an uncle who already had a toy hauler and bikes, and I went with him once, spent a total of 30 mins offroad riding a Honda bike he had. I bought my Rebel 250 a few days later, and passed my riding test at the DMV 9 days into ownership, with only 65 miles on the odometer. Man Rebels are great starter bikes, because that wasn't bragging about me, it was about the Rebels beautiful handling.

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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
Rebels are great trainers. very forgiving and easy for beginning riders. That should not replace good training however, in the 21st century. A new graduate of MSF is not an expert rider by any means, but he has learned things that took the older self trained generation YEARS to figure out on their own, and he has that knowledge and ability NOW when he might need it out there on the street. If it even saves you a minor accident it is well worth the time and money you need to invest in it. The skills you pick up riding dirtbikes certainly add to that knowledge base, but bikes handle much differently on dirt than on pavement, and of course there is no traffic to speak of in the dirt.

_________________
2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: For new riders.... just a thought....
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Jul 4, 2009
Country: USA
State/Province: AZ
City: Chandler
I learned to ride on a dirt bike, an old Bultaco 100, when I was 8 years old. I worked all summer to buy it, and it didn't run. But the local farm mechanic helped me fix it up and rebuild the top end, which got me started wrenching as well. I fell a lot, but never really got hurt. I rode that thing all over the countryside, getting better and better at it. I learned how to do wheelies, jumps and slides. The one thing that was missing of course was traffic, and I definitely consider that a good thing. It is a good idea to learn how to ride a motorcycle BEFORE going out in traffic. I also has over a year of MX experience before I was 16. Then I got a Suzuki GT380, and started riding on the road. But it was still out in the country. I put thousands of miles on that bike mostly riding outside towns. And when I did start riding in town, it was a small town, there wasn't that much traffic, and nobody had cell phones, so many of them were actually paying attention to driving. I learned how to deal with driving cell phone operators and heavy traffic a little bit over time, as these things happened.

For a new rider today, starting out on the street, with all the traffic and cell phone users, it is probably 10 times more dangerous than the way I did it. I already had a couple hundred thousand miles of experience before handheld cell phones started showing up in large numbers.

The Rebel is a great bike, and a great starter bike for someone who fits it. Unfortunately the way Honda designed it, many people don't fit so well. I am way to big for it. IMO, the best starter bike is the smallest non sport bike that you fit properly on. I fit way better on the V-Star 250. Even though it is still a 250, it's frame is longer, and the footpegs allow you to stretch out more. Even though it is a v-twin, it was designed from the ground up to fit a full sized adult. It looks like Honda took a Harley, minus the v-twin, and shrunk it, but kept it to scale, and that is the problem. When making a big bike design small, you have to change the scale some, and relocate a few things. The Suzuki S40 also fits me very well. I do prefer the Rebel over any other small bike, and wish I fit on it better, or that they would make a larger version. Make a Rebel 500, with almost the same look as the 250, put a centerstand on it, and I will buy it.


Even if you live in town, a dual sport bike is also a good first bike, again if you fit. You can take the shortest way out of town, and then get a lot of practice riding off road. A 250cc dual sport is one of the most versatile, useful, practical bikes around. You can ride them on road, off road, around town, and even on the freeway. Suzuki just brought back their DR200, which is an ideal bike for a smaller person. Yamaha's XT250 and Honda's CRF250L are both great bikes if you are a little bigger. And if you fit (and I don't) the Yamaha TW200 may very well be the best beginner bike ever made. The seat is low, and the tires are so wide you can actually balance it just on the tires while not moving. It's basically a 2 wheeled quad. And for more experience riders (that fit) there is almost nowhere it will not go.

_________________
"Obsolete doesn't mean it isn't any good, it just means it isn't made anymore"
"New vehicles move the body,old vehicles move the soul"
"If you understand, no explanation is necessary. If you don't, no explanation is possible"


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