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 Post subject: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Sep 14, 2012
Motorcycle: 2009 CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: n/a
So I was riding my Rebel 250 from Ontario, CA to Prescott Valley AZ, (actual trip distance 360 miles one-way) and everything was fine. Odometer is now at 7700 and never had much of a problem. only mods to my bike are front sprocket changed from 14 to 15 tooth and front signals now has double filiments so I can be noticed better. On my way back through Cabazon, it was about 110 degrees, and after 5 and a half straight hours of riding it didn't even occur to me to stop. I noticed that the bike started hesitating, like I was running out of gas and needed to switch to reserve.

Anytime I brought the RPMs down to stop for gas or anything, it would try to stall. I let it cool down at a gas station, but it never saw improvement and now I can barely even get it up to speed. When it's warmed up, it stalls at almost every light and most of the time only one of the cylinders is working. Did I overheat and damage the bike? It sounds a little different, skips a lot of cycles (about 20% of them) and I'm not sure it's bad gasoline like my dealer insists.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Joined: Mar 19, 2010
Motorcycle: Yamaha Midnight Virago 920
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: MI
City: Near Ann Arbor
First thing, check the oil.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
+1 Serious loss of power follows running very low on oil as can happen when running fast in hot weather. The bad news is its not usually reversible'

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2003 BMW K1200GT
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1996 Ducati 900SS
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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:45 am 
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Joined: Sep 14, 2012
Motorcycle: 2009 CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: n/a
I'm still a mm above the max line on the dipstick, using Honda's synthetic blend oil from my local dealer. No loss of power strangely, when I get the RPM's up enough to stabilize the engine, it pushes as hard as ever, cold or warmed.
Just in case the dealer was right, I drained the gas out of the tank (no fumes came off of it) and I added fresh gas that I could smell was strong, adding seafoam at the proper dosage as well. I haven't had time to crank it over and run it except to fire it up really quickly, so I'll post again when I've had a chance for it to clean the carb if need be.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:07 am 
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Joined: Aug 9, 2012
Motorcycle: 2008 FLHRC Road King Classic
Rebel: 250
Country: united States
State/Province: In
City: Peru
Might have bought some gas with alot of water in it.

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1982 GL1100 Gold Wing - Traded for an F250 pick up
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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:19 am 
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Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
Not an oil issue then.. That's a good thing..

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2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:22 am 
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Joined: Sep 14, 2012
Motorcycle: 2009 CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: n/a
Probably, I mean I was squatting next to the petcock for about 10 minutes draining out all 1.8 gallons and the fumes were barely noticable, not a good sign. I swore I would never take any of the beloved vehicles to an Arco again, all 5 times I've taken a vehicle there I've had to drain my whole fuel system, being the unlucky winner of a tank of gassy water. This trip to northern AZ took me across 4 trips to Arco in my Rebel and I winced at every gallon hoping my unlucky streak wouldn't come back.

I've been reading the stickied thread about freeway riding in thoroughly beaten dead horses, and I'm thinking that I was holding about 8k RPM's when I was riding through the 100-110 degree weather. Seeing as about 3000 miles of my 7700 odometer reading have been me going 70 and 80 mph to work, I think I might have ghosted my engine block and asked to much of the gal. I was putting a bigger CC attitude towards it, when I should have respected the tried and true design.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:13 am 
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Joined: Sep 9, 2004
Motorcycle: Suzuki Gsf1250
Rebel: 450
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Rusagonis
Just to be certain we are all on the same page, you are checking oil level with the bike fully upright, right? Not on kickstand?

Since she runs fully strong at higher speeds , I would rule out air supply or dirty air filter. If it was fuel quantity, it would idle ok, and die at speed. If its fuel quality, it would do what you describe, if it started at all!
Keep us posted, ok?

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"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem" G.Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Sep 14, 2012
Motorcycle: 2009 CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: n/a
I've often wondered about the positioning of the bike during oil check, and always checked with it upright. Are you supposed to rest the dipstick against the threads or turn the threads until it's fully seated, then unscrew and check? It makes a difference on my 2009 250cc of about 4mm, and the measuring range on the dipstick is only about 11mm tall, so it's got me a little confused.

Anyway, last night I had drained the watery gas and added seafoam and fresh gas, ran it enough to get fresh fuel in the carb, and let it sit until this morning. When I ran it today, it ran much better. It still misfires/skips cycles here and there, but down to less than one misfire per 100 cycles, my best estimate of course since I'm not a genius/ math god. It's safe to ride again, even if it did suffer some damage.

Thirdly, I'm wondering about seafoam. Now I haven't confirmed anything but I'm betting seafoam in the oil will tear apart the wet clutch. If I did damage my engine and I'm having exccesive piston blow-by, wouldn't seafoam in the gas blow-by into the oil and sit until the next oil change? I'm guessing pouring seafoam into the intake on a Rebel 250 is a bad idea, because of the way it works.
I apoligize for asking so many questions at once, and I thank you all for your prompt responses, I do appreciate the time you're taking to explain things to me.

EDIT: btw before I experienced this problem, I was getting over 80 miles per gallon mysteriously. The only related modification to my bike is a 15-tooth front sprocket, which can't account for me travelling 125 miles on 1.3 gallons of gas.
I have no explanation and scratched my head for a while, since I was doing 70-80 mph steady that stretch of the road. There was no power loss at the time, I had enough to pass cars and such.

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2009 Honda Rebel CMX250C


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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Motorcycle: 2014 CB500XA
Rebel: None
Country: USA
State/Province: AZ
City: Green Valley
Oil check is done with the bike vertical and you do not screw in the dipstick.

Gas in the oil is a worry, seafoam in the oil, not so much of a worry.

Does the dipstick smell "gasey" ?

My wife manages to get 80 mpg on her Rebel, I'm not sure what you are asking about the mileage. Has it dropped with the "new" gas?

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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Sep 9, 2004
Motorcycle: Suzuki Gsf1250
Rebel: 450
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Rusagonis
If you can still do 70 to 80 on the bike, I rather doubt you've lost compression as a result of some engine damage. If a change of gas has more or less corrected your problem, then you very likely had some bad (contaminated) gas. And running watery gas is not likely to hurt your engine, just the bike's performance while trying to run on it.
Don't pour seafoam into your intake. Don't put seafoam in your oil (on purpose). But a little seafoam in your gas, in the proportion recommended on the bottle won't do any harm.
When you drained the gas, did you also drain the carb? Any water left in there will sit on the bottom of the bowl, and intermittently get drawn into the jet(s), perhaps causing your occasional misfire.
Did you happen to check the gas that you drained out, for water contamination?

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"If you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem" G.Carlin


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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Jun 18, 2009
Motorcycle: 1999 Rebel CMX
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: FL
City: Summerfield
A spark plug check would not be a bad idea, after operating the engine on low quality gasoline.

Uncontrolled explosions in the combustion chamber, can cause unseen damage to the spark plugs.

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1999 Honda Rebel VQR234se
. . . . . 43,000+ Miles . . . . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:01 am 
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Joined: Sep 14, 2012
Motorcycle: 2009 CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: n/a
Spark plus are dirty, but replaced 800 miles ago and not unusable, but as was said, unseen damage.
I finally had a chance to establish a pattern in the bike's behaivior. If I ride the freeway at 65-75, it stutters/chokes at acceleration from a stop. Erhem let me clarify, I exit freeway, stop at offramp, and when I attempt to go at the green, it stutters and I have to raise rpms and feather the clutch to keep it running.
When it's a cold engine, enricher on or off, there's no hesitation. The more time I spend on side streets, the worse it runs, until I reach my workplace and I can barely get it into a parking spot. Bucks like an untamed horse, plenty of torque for a couple cycles, then as soon as it starts moving forward it stutters and throws me towards the handlebars.
Mighty unpleasant slamming my nether regions against the tank I might add, but I haven't dropped it turning while it stutters, so that's a plus.

Oil level is normal, and discolored but not dirty yet. Going to try plugs again, even though they're new. I know I'm a total novice at bike mechanics but this still strikes me as strange behaivior for an engine. My car experience says it should either be overheating and seize, orhaving ignition trouble and stall completely. However, I'm not pretending to understand this.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
Have you checked valve clearance?

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2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Sep 14, 2012
Motorcycle: 2009 CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: n/a
Whoops, yes I did, hasn't budged from .003 where I put it. I can hear tapping when the bike struggles though, identical to the tapping when the valves need adjustment. Only when a load is placed on it, not on idle

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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Sep 14, 2012
Motorcycle: 2009 CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: n/a
Now it's developing an oil leak, not enough to reach the ground in drops but the transmission case is covered on most sides. Can't seem to keep the dipstick wet on my 12 mile each-way commute, I lose about half the dipstick each day. The stuttering engine continues but only when the engine gets hot, and running at minimum RPM's, under load such as accelerating from a stop. Idling more than 2 minutes at a light causes it to stutter as well, usually stalling the engine.

DEFINITELY gas in the oil, enough to see 2 separate marks on the dipstick when the bike sits overnight. It did start sounding... "hollow," if you will. When this first started, freeway speeds made a high pitched buzz, now that speed brings a deep hollow vibration. I do mean vibration, the bike numbs me when I ride now. Only 8243 miles on a one-year old ride, and honestly either something went wrong or I'm disappointed with the assembling that my local dealership did.

A co-worker mentions trying to get rid of his 1977 Honda CB750, which he says has 87k original miles and only needs carb cleaning from sitting too long. Hasn't talked about a price but it looks in decent if not dusty condition. Gonna try and get pics, maybe it can hold me over until I can figure out this situation with my Rebel 250.

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2009 Honda Rebel CMX250C


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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Jun 18, 2009
Motorcycle: 1999 Rebel CMX
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: FL
City: Summerfield
From what you posted about gas in the oil. I would suspect a leaking float needle valve.

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If you're Waiting on me, you're Late.



1999 Honda Rebel VQR234se
. . . . . 43,000+ Miles . . . . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
Whatever happened to this problem?

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2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Sep 14, 2012
Motorcycle: 2009 CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: n/a
Duckster wrote:
Whatever happened to this problem?

I'm sorry for never updating about this issue. I have been riding it everyday because it's my commute ride. It's still sputtering when I tryto accelerate from a stop, only when engine is hot. Engaging the enricher corrects the problem. I recently adjusted the idle to be higher using the adjustment knob on the right side of the carb, and it seems to be helping a bit, but no way to measure. It has not stalled out completely while in freeway use anymore, which I'm glad for. The only other vehicle I have is needed for my wife, so it hasn't been in the shop yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible overheat?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Joined: Sep 14, 2012
Motorcycle: 2009 CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: n/a
So I've been doing some testing, turning my idle down and up each day, and I got some interesting results. I had originally turned my idle down as far as was practical because I had become so used to the clutch. When I have the idle low, it will stall out at freeway speed and/or just sputter out when I'm at low idle with a load on the engine. The harder I push the engine on the freeway the worse it will act after I'm off the freeway.

When I turn my idle up to manual specs, I have no problems whatsoever, no matter how hard I've pushed the bike's limits on the freeway. Even over clutching to a near-stall on purpose, the bike acts brand spankin' new, not hesitating for a second. From what I can tell of the bike's design, the idle adjustment knob should not interfere with the bike's regular fuel flow, but it is definitely making a significant change in the bike's operation. I hope this may help someone else that may have run into the same problem as me, but I doubt anyone will turn their idle to a minimum like I did.

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