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 Post subject: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:16 am 
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Joined: May 16, 2013
Motorcycle: Honda Rebel
Rebel: 250
Country: U.S.A.
State/Province: MO
City: Leadwood
Hello all, I am a noobie motorcycle rider who has already posted on this forum a few times, and greatly appreciate all the feedback.

While I see a lot of people move up in size to different motorcycles, or have multiple bikes, I really enjoy my Rebel, and feel as long as I can go a consistent 65, I have no need to size up.

My question, in a nutshell, is does it harm or reduce the longevity of my Rebel by holding 4th gear for long periods of time going 65mph?

The reason I ask is where I live is hilly. So in 5th gear, going uphill, my bike tends to drop speed. In one sense, no that does not bother me, but understanding that y doing this causes frustration to vehicles behind me, often them flooring their vehicle and whips around me. I slow down before curves anyways, so that is one thing I will always deal with, but on straightaways, I would like to keep my speed more consistent. I really hate having to jockey back and forth between 4th and 5th on the highway, so this is why I would prefer, at least in the hilly section, to stay in 4th gear.

Over the long haul, is that too much abuse? I may only going 30 miles now, but I plan on extending my trips out much longer as my experience grows.

Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:24 am 
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Joined: Mar 19, 2010
Motorcycle: Yamaha Midnight Virago 920
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: MI
City: Near Ann Arbor
In my experience, you won't do much, if any, damage spinning the Rebel engine free like that. 65 mph, with OE gearing, is near the top of the rev range but not at it. Holding 70 in fourth would be right at the limit and I'd say slow down a bit but 65 should be all right. It would seem that spinning the engine freely like that is less detrimental than laboring the engine in a higher gear.
You will need to check you oil frequently as the mist thrown up from the transmission gears tends to get re-ingested in to the breather system. Drain the breather drain and change the oil frequently, like every 1250 miles or so. How you maintain the oil, valve lash, air filter, and spark plugs will have an influence on how long it will run.

In my opinion, there are things far more detrimental to longevity. Things like chopping the exhaust and/or removing the original air induction system (filtration) would fall in to that category.

_________________
'87 Rebel
'02 Silver Wing 600
'83 Virago 920
'61 Buick


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:23 pm 
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Joined: May 16, 2013
Motorcycle: Honda Rebel
Rebel: 250
Country: U.S.A.
State/Province: MO
City: Leadwood
Buickguy wrote:
Drain the breather drain and change the oil frequently, like every 1250 miles or so. How you maintain the oil, valve lash, air filter, and spark plugs will have an influence on how long it will run.

In my opinion, there are things far more detrimental to longevity. Things like chopping the exhaust and/or removing the original air induction system (filtration) would fall in to that category.


Pardon my ignorant backside, but I am clueless on the above in bold.

I changed my oil a few days ago.
How do I drain the breather?
And what is the recommended maintenance for the valve lash (I don't know what that is), air filter, and spark plugs?

Because I plan on using my Rebel daily, my plan is to change oil every 1,000 miles, and would like to keep it as ship shape as possible, after all, my life is riding on it. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Mar 19, 2010
Motorcycle: Yamaha Midnight Virago 920
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: MI
City: Near Ann Arbor
What year is your Rebel? It matters on the air filter. First gen is washable foam and second gen uses a replaceable paper element.
The (crankcase) breather system essentially does the job of Positive Crankcase Ventilation on an automobile.
It vents from the top of the crankcase (you should be able to see that hose) up in to a separator that allows the heavier wet particulate to condense and fall out down the drain tube while the drier gasses pass on through to inside the air cleaner to be ingested and burned in the combustion process.
Attachment:
CrankcaseBreather.jpg
CrankcaseBreather.jpg [ 57.26 KiB | Viewed 6430 times ]


On the right hand side of the cycle you will fund a small cluster of tubes hanging down. The one with the cap drains that breather drain tube.
Attachment:
DrainTube.jpg
DrainTube.jpg [ 42.35 KiB | Viewed 6430 times ]


The valve lash or clearance is set with a cold (not run in 24 hours) engine. It is checked/set initially at the 600 mile break in then check/adjusted as needed at 4000 miles and every 4000 after that. The clearance should be between .002 and .004 of an inch. I usually go for the middle of that range at .003
Zeprider did a great video on how to set the valve lash. Zeprider's valve video

_________________
'87 Rebel
'02 Silver Wing 600
'83 Virago 920
'61 Buick


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:33 pm 
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Joined: May 16, 2013
Motorcycle: Honda Rebel
Rebel: 250
Country: U.S.A.
State/Province: MO
City: Leadwood
It is a 2007. I believe the air filter is paper.

Thank you for the diagrams, I found the breather drain quite easily Removing the cap was another story. Why a drain is capped is beyond me, but after drainingI replaced it.

The rebel is at 8,000 miles, so the valves need to be done. Thanks to that wonderful video you showed, I feel confident I can do that myself, I just need the right tools. I will change the plugs at that time as well.

Also, looking at the air breather, I found the Manual, which is a relief to know I have one now.

Thank you so much, this bike really seems owner friendly, and can be maintained with relative ease.


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
It's capped to prevent oil from dripping out of it and dirt from being sucked into it. I took the clip off my drain plug, and it stays in there just fine by friction.

_________________
2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:56 am 
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Joined: Jun 3, 2014
Motorcycle: CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: San Francisco
While I have adjusted my valves, and changed oil at least once a year this is the first I have known about the breather drain and plug.. Have never had an excess of oil in the air cleaner box.. First gen oiled foam filter in my 87, my personal favorite.. Grew up driving trucks and farm tractors with oil bath air filters what can I say.. I'm Old.. I always regap old plugs have at least 11k on current set..

Good valve lash overview video link in Buickguy's post.. "Zeprider's valve video" But every time I tighten set nut, adjustment changes and I am back and forth many times till I get it..

I picked up a short 9mm open/box end wrench at the flea market, ground away about 1/2 the thickness of box end to be the same thickness as set nut.. 4mm notch ground into 1/4" steel flat bar will hold square set screw head while tightening set nut with box wrench.. Don't need no stinking torque wrench..LoL

IMHO any ft lb torque wrench could easily be 7 ft lbs out of calibration. an inch lb torque wrench would be more accurate as 7 ft lbs = 84 inch lbs.. Real shops I have worked in have a torque wrench calibration tester in the tool crib..

Hardest part of valve adjustment is removal/install of 2 seat nuts to the rear of driver seat..

_________________
1996 Intruder VS800GL
1987 Rebel CMX250C
1979 Hawk CB400 (sold 1993)
1975 CB350 (sold 1983)
1971 CB350 (stolen 1974)


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Jun 18, 2009
Motorcycle: 1999 Rebel CMX
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: FL
City: Summerfield
soakedkarma wrote:
Hardest part of valve adjustment is removal/install of 2 seat nuts to the rear of driver seat..


My 99 Rebel has two bolts, that secure the back of the riders seat to the rear fender.

A little work with a round file, in the bolt holes, will make the job much easier.

_________________
If you're Waiting on me, you're Late.

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1999 Honda Rebel VQR234se
. . . . . 43,000+ Miles . . . . . .


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Jun 3, 2014
Motorcycle: CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: San Francisco
Soul Searcher wrote:
soakedkarma wrote:
Hardest part of valve adjustment is removal/install of 2 seat nuts to the rear of driver seat..


My 99 Rebel has two bolts, that secure the back of the riders seat to the rear fender.

A little work with a round file, in the bolt holes, will make the job much easier.


87 has (2) 6mm studs molded into underside of drivers seat #4 which extend through seat belt mount #12..
http://cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/a/hon/506bfa75f870023420a2af73/seat
drawing doesn't show studs extending downward from rear of drivers seat..
Flange Nut #14 along with collar #2 and rubber #7 are assembled with about 13mm space between downward pointing stud and fender.. Never have removed riders seat #13..

_________________
1996 Intruder VS800GL
1987 Rebel CMX250C
1979 Hawk CB400 (sold 1993)
1975 CB350 (sold 1983)
1971 CB350 (stolen 1974)


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:12 pm 
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Forum Moderator

Joined: Feb 23, 2009
Motorcycle: Rebel 250 plus a few others
Rebel: 250
Country: Canada
State/Province: NB
City: Fredericton
There's no need to remove either the seat or the tank to adjust valves. Just remove the 2 bolts at the front of the tank and raise the front up 2 or 3 inches and block it up.

_________________
2004 Honda Rebel 250
2003 BMW K1200GT
2004 BMW R1200GS
1996 Ducati 900SS
1973 Norton 850 Interstate


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Jun 3, 2014
Motorcycle: CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: San Francisco
Duckster wrote:
There's no need to remove either the seat or the tank to adjust valves. Just remove the 2 bolts at the front of the tank and raise the front up 2 or 3 inches and block it up.

Did that till rear tank mount spot weld cracked and started seeping gas..
Caswell 2 part epoxy gas tank sealer saved the day but I'm not taking any chances these days

_________________
1996 Intruder VS800GL
1987 Rebel CMX250C
1979 Hawk CB400 (sold 1993)
1975 CB350 (sold 1983)
1971 CB350 (stolen 1974)


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:44 pm 
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Joined: Jun 5, 2011
Motorcycle: '85 CMX250
Rebel: 450
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: Moorpark
soakedkarma wrote:
87 has (2) 6mm studs molded into underside of drivers seat #4 which extend through seat belt mount #12..
http://cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/a/hon/506bfa75f870023420a2af73/seat
drawing doesn't show studs extending downward from rear of drivers seat..
Flange Nut #14 along with collar #2 and rubber #7 are assembled with about 13mm space between downward pointing stud and fender.. Never have removed riders seat #13..


That seems very much the long way around the barn.

I have usually just removed two easily accessible bolts #15, to pull off the pillion. Then remove two easily accessible bolts #16 to pull off the rider's seat - seat belt 12 still attached. It's a five minute job.

I must say, on last month's valve adjustment, I used Duckster's approach of lifting the tank from the front. That was a little faster than pulling the seats, and it avoids the risk of tearing the pillion vinyl on the bracket during reassembly.


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Jun 3, 2014
Motorcycle: CMX250C
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: CA
City: San Francisco
WekaDog wrote:
soakedkarma wrote:
87 has (2) 6mm studs molded into underside of drivers seat #4 which extend through seat belt mount #12..
http://cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/a/hon/506bfa75f870023420a2af73/seat
drawing doesn't show studs extending downward from rear of drivers seat..
Flange Nut #14 along with collar #2 and rubber #7 are assembled with about 13mm space between downward pointing stud and fender.. Never have removed riders seat #13..


That seems very much the long way around the barn.

I have usually just removed two easily accessible bolts #15, to pull off the pillion. Then remove two easily accessible bolts #16 to pull off the rider's seat - seat belt 12 still attached. It's a five minute job.

I must say, on last month's valve adjustment, I used Duckster's approach of lifting the tank from the front. That was a little faster than pulling the seats, and it avoids the risk of tearing the pillion vinyl on the bracket during reassembly.

would be except I would have to also remove OEM back rest and saddle bags before attacking rear seat mounts..

Backrest is a qualifier I didn't mention.. my bad.. :roll: Sorry
I can see that without a backrest or bags it would be much easier to remove rear seat and work forward..

_________________
1996 Intruder VS800GL
1987 Rebel CMX250C
1979 Hawk CB400 (sold 1993)
1975 CB350 (sold 1983)
1971 CB350 (stolen 1974)


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Jul 4, 2009
Motorcycle: 2016 Honda Rebel
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: AZ
City: Chandler
I put about 15,000 miles on a Rebel at full throttle, in fifth gear, on the freeway. That is very close to redline. However, I would be careful about over revving it without enough load on it. If you are climbing a STEEP hill, where riding if fifth would lug the engine, then fourth should be fine. I would pay more attention to what the bike is doing (don't over rev it or lug it) than people passing you. When you ride a Rebel, people are going to pass you. I have ridden tens of thousands of miles on 65 mph roads on 150cc scooters with a top speed of 50-55 mph. No way you are going to keep up with traffic. I just stay to the right if it is only one lane in each direction, and there is a solid yellow line or oncoming traffic, giving cars a chance to pass. If there are 2 lanes going in each direction, I just ride normally in the right lane. Fast traffic can use the left lane.

I have been told by someone who should know that a Rebel will last 80,000 miles when ridden mostly at full throttle on the freeway. I set out to prove that, but wound up selling the Rebel before I even got close.

The main things NOT to do with any engine is to rev it too high without enough of a load on it, or ride it too slow or with a heavy load on it in to high a gear. The gear should match the speed and load conditions, not traffic.

_________________
"Obsolete doesn't mean it isn't any good, it just means it isn't made anymore"
"New vehicles move the body,old vehicles move the soul"
"If you understand, no explanation is necessary. If you don't, no explanation is possible"


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Aug 2, 2017
Motorcycle: 2016 Honda Rebel
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: TX
City: Houston
I just wanted to comment that riding it with OEM gearing at top speed you will notice more vibration due to the higher rpms, it is my opinion that is worse for the bike in general because there is a difference between full throttle and WOT (it is called throttle management). Yes, the Honda dealer told me that a Rebel was not designed to ride on the open road and I found a couple of issues and I agree with them, so I addressed the issues and I put the first 4600 miles on it driving on the open road in 4 weeks. I saw a comment above about hills and wind, just pull over to the shoulder and wave them around.

Mine is winterized for the summer due to the TX heat ( heat is detrimental to an air cooled engine, tranny and wet clutches) and 3 sets of clutch springs going bad during this 4600 miles, mysterious phenomena. All I will say is that I am waiting to ride and see how the new springs hold up to 6 - 8 hrs of l constant riding, I initially did some redesign and worked with a coil spring Eng. that I have known and worked with during my career. Yep, use colder plugs according to the manual for extended driving, a little dark tan to dark brown is better than too lean.


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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:40 pm 
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Joined: Sep 17, 2003
Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
Rebel: 250
Country: U.S.A.
State/Province: NV
City: Las VLX-as
112hp95ci wrote:
Mine is winterized for the summer due to the TX heat ( heat is detrimental to an air cooled engine, tranny and wet clutches)


Southern NV heat is typically +20ยบ hotter than TX heat, depending on what part of TX we're talking about --- I used to live in San Antonio so that's my yard stick. I use 20W50 out here during our four months worth of triple digit temps (May to August) and have yet to experience any issues with my Rebels in the summer temps.

FWIW I avoid the freeways like the plague here as well, so that's stop & go use for the past 14 years on our earliest acquisition. In that time I've only replaced the typical consumables...it's due for an oil change and I'm holding out for a month since it needs tires and chain & sprockets so I'll be switching to 10W40 for the "cooler" 70's-to-90's months ahead.

_________________
"Ride Safe, Chop Safer"
Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
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 Post subject: Re: High Speed and Rebel Longevity
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Nov 29, 2016
Motorcycle: 1999 CMX250C Rebel
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: GA
City: Avera
I just run 20W50 synthetic year round here in Georgia, in both the Rebel and the V-Twins.


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