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 Post subject: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:44 pm 
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https://www.eliomotors.com/

I first heard of this outfit a couple of years ago now. The company was founded back in 2009 . They have a prototype 3 wheeled car with side by side seating, and all the bells and whistles for a "targetted" base price of $6800. (All american made too , no Cheap Chinese stuff)
This is a similar layout to the much more spartan Bombardier Spyder that goes for $18-25,000 last time I looked. The Spyder is a glorified snowmobile with no body and no amenities beyond what a basic touring motorcycle would have but costs like an expensive high end 2 wheeled motorcycle.

Apparently you can send in anywhere from $100 to $1000 to reserve your delivery position for one of these 3 wheeled beauties.
I scoured the site to find out how they are doing in setting up an actual manufacturing plant, but didn't see anything on that other than that they have selected Shreveport, La as the site.

Sooo, Excuse me for being a skeptic, but it seems like these guys have taken in quite a pile of money for "reservations" on what amounts to a "vaporware" product with no sign of an actual production plant yet.
Am I just too cynical?

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:57 am 
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Yup you are.
They're making great progress.
Their estimated manufacturing date of end 2016 will probably not be met.
I've worked with similar companies before, like Eden Electronics, and no company ever meets their deadline; and if they do, the product is buggy.
If you ask me, I think they will be good starting manufacturing between mid to end 2017.
The product idea is ok, the prototypes still need to be made.
This is the kind of product you throw left over cash at, not your bread money.
They're already touring with the first prototypes, and have their first engine for display.
You can actually see and touch the working models where ever they are campaigning.
Doing a lot of tests on it to fine tune the vehicle.


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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:22 am 
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Duckster wrote:
Sooo, Excuse me for being a skeptic, but it seems like these guys have taken in quite a pile of money for "reservations" on what amounts to a "vaporware" product with no sign of an actual production plant yet.
Am I just too cynical?


They have about 10K shares floating around out there trading from $20 & low change to $20 & high change over a 52 week period. Not a lot of shares, and not a lot of activity with those shares.

https://web.archive.org/web/20091006081 ... otors.com/

That's an archive of their website from 2009 claiming a MSRP of "under $7500", Which, as anyone familiar with business lingo knows, is actually "$7499".

https://web.archive.org/web/20120203190 ... otors.com/

2012, now it's "Waaay under $7500".

https://web.archive.org/web/20130430134 ... otors.com/

2013, and it finally settles to $6800, where it still stands today.

Note the HIGHER suggested MSRP which has gotten LOWER during the continued decline of the US economy. Yes, that's right folks....this is the one and only product that bucks the trend of getting more expensive during the past eight years worth of a sour economy. Well, that and gas stations that are closed or out of product that are proudly advertising at a dollar per gallon.

So, yes...there's plenty of room for skepticism.

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:33 am 
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MeeLee wrote:
The product idea is ok, the prototypes still need to be made.
This is the kind of product you throw left over cash at, not your bread money.
They're already touring with the first prototypes, and have their first engine for display.



So which is it, do they need to make their first prototypes or are they running around with their first prototypes?

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:22 am 
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Shadow Shack wrote:
MeeLee wrote:
The product idea is ok, the prototypes still need to be made.
This is the kind of product you throw left over cash at, not your bread money.
They're already touring with the first prototypes, and have their first engine for display.



So which is it, do they need to make their first prototypes or are they running around with their first prototypes?


They are running around with what they call 'the 3rd or 4th mule'.
They don't call it a prototype, because it's just for show.
It works and all, but it hasn't been thoroughly tested.
It has plastic windows, and an engine that works, kinda.
But none of the parts are extreme-tested.

They started building the first of the 40 or 50 prototypes they will be running tests on.
I assume they will run the tests starting from end July to mid August, until 6 or 9 months later.
During those 6 - 9 months, the other prototypes are built.
By the time the last prototype is built, they probably will take apart the first prototype for inspection, while the second batch will be stress tested (extreme conditions, like long top speed, uphill racing, pothole roads, icy roads, desert temperatures)...
A good manufacturing company would at least send one vehicle in both the Alaskan winter cold, as well as the Nevada desert heat.

Not sure if they will manage to do the summer tests this year.
But winter tests on the prototypes are according to plan.

Elio has moved the date to beginning 2017. Which is all good and well; I think they could possibly do it, but I think they would do well, by testing the prototypes at least until summer 2017, and start producing end 2017.
I'm sure the prototypes are going to bring a lot of issues to the surface.
Peer pressure is great, people demand the vehicle here, right now.
Truth is, right now is not a good time for this vehicle to be delivered. A good time, is when gas prices hit $3,50 or up again; which could happen within the next 2 years.

The recommended salesprice is $6800, but like with all cars, if you add the options you need, you'll be closer to $10k, which is the price of an eco car, or a second hand mid size sedan vehicle.

If you want to talk about blown out of proportion pricing, look at the Slingshot. It was introduced at $20k, which is more than a sedan car, doesn't have a roof, fourth tire, who's safety ratings are below the chart for cars, and is missing a lot of the comforts for the road (like it's really too hot to drive in summer over here, not recommended during rainy season, etc...).
Now they go for $30k. Why? Because over the lifetime of the vehicle, you supposedly save $10k on insurance, being it's registered as a motorcycle.
So who's cashing in on that money? The dealerships.
The Elio would be sold for $6.8k, but for the end user the price will be closer to $8 to $10k.
But he will get his money back in a period of the lifetime of the vehicle, on insurance costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:37 am 
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Of course, the inherent (and likely flawed) assumption is that the person who buys one is using it to replace a car. Not saying it won't happen, but I doubt it will be the majority.
brent

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:44 am 
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2017...if they make that then they'll break the new Camaro's record for taking the longest time to release.

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:58 am 
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They can never come close to the $6800 price point, and that's going to blow up their demand.
Look at what $6800 buys you in a motorcycle and compare that to a 3 wheeled car with a 900cc triple and air conditioning even. Competitive trikes are 3 times the money with way less bodywork and accessories.

All those who put down deposits are going to be sadly disappointed I'm afraid.

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:34 am 
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I'm pretty sure you're right Jim.
On the other hand, when I bought my GSF1250 in 2009 I mentioned to a local dealer that Hyundai was selling their Elantra for roughly the same price as my bike (under $10,000). His comment was: "Don't think for one moment that the price of a motorcycle has much to do with its cost of production".

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:56 pm 
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I'm sure Hyundai spits out many times the volume of Elantras that Elio would ever achieve with a trike, especially in this era of $1.50 a gallon gas.... The collapse of the oil market comes at a bad time for a vehicle whose big draw is fuel economy.
It's not that I wish the guy any bad luck, it's obviously more than just a scam since they really have a product that has clearly taken a lot of effort to develop, but I just think its a case of an enthusiast trying to become a businessman and the market won't pay what he has to charge to make any money. Look at the $20,000 smart cars.... I paid not much over that for a used Mercedes C series.

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:08 pm 
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Jim: good point about the number of elantras coming off the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:17 am 
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Duckster wrote:
Look at the $20,000 smart cars.... I paid not much over that for a used Mercedes C series.


Granted the North American Smart car is a completely different animal compared to the original European Daimler "City Coupe" counterpart (later renamed Smart Fortwo and a larger Forfour model to boot) that had a mere 660cc engine in the back. Don't forget the mantra here --- "bigger is better" --- they had to double the displacement in order to take a shot at the US compact car market. :roll: DOT standards & inspections also served to boost the price.

Smart also had a Roadster in their domestic market...

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Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:34 am 
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Shack We never saw those Smart models here AFAIK. We have the European version I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:45 am 
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So you got the 0.6 & 0.7 motors in addition to the liter+ version we have? IIRC the Euros also had a sub-liter diesel for a while.

We only got the "big inch" Fortwo here in the US. They also offer an electric here these days.

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Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:57 am 
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I don't see them around much anymore.. they were just too pricey for what they were and not that much easier on gas than many real cars.

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 Post subject: Re: Elio Motors
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:29 am 
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There's actually quite a few of them on the road here, somewhere I have a photo of my Shadow chopper parked next to one and the bike is a couple inches longer. ;)

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Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
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