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 Post subject: Re: 2017 Honda Rebel- just sat on one in the showroom
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Joined: Jul 25, 2003
Motorcycle: 98 Valkyrie
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
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City: Vidalia
In other words, "yes; it was measured differently."

Which, given the difference, makes those "superior" unmonitored unregulated electronics-free engines look even _more_ pitiful by comparison. The '02 6.0L, which would have been spec'd at the rear wheel, was rated at 300 hp. The '77 I used in my example _exclusively_ because I happened to have stuck in my head some of the specs from that particular car, including the fact that the model I used, with the 7.0L, was rated at 180hp. Granted, if that was a wheel rating, it would have been the front wheel on that particular car, but if it was right off the crank, then .....

well, just.... wow. "Superior."

Though honestly, if even if it was a wheel rating, it's still pretty sad, comparatively.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 Honda Rebel- just sat on one in the showroom
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Sep 17, 2003
Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
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I was under the impression that they used to measure at the wheel while modern measurements were at the crank. It's been forever since I read a car rag, with the last one being an article about the prototype Nissan Mid-4 (go ahead and google that just to see how long ago it's been since I thumbed through an automotive magazine :D ).

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 Honda Rebel- just sat on one in the showroom
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Nov 20, 2008
Motorcycle: 2015 Honda Rebel
Rebel: 250
Country: USA
State/Province: MO
City: Strafford
Here is a good article that discusses the change in methodology from the way that horsepower used to be measured (and advertised) compared to the way it is currently measured (and advertised):
https://ateupwithmotor.com/terms-technology-definitions/gross-versus-net-horsepower/

In a nutshell, advertised horsepower used to be measured at the crankshaft on a stripped down engine - no accessories (such as alternator, a/c compressor, power steering pump, even the water pump), and with no mufflers. The engine tuning (back then, carb jetting and ignition timing) would have been optimized for the engine running "bare", not as it would have been in the car.

The factory advertised horsepower of a modern car is still measured at the crankshaft, but it will be fully equipped similar to what you would find with it installed in said car. There are SAE standards that define the parameters for the manufacturer to follow when testing the horsepower of an engine, so that the numbers advertised to the public are apple-to-apple comparisons.

The HP measured at the wheel will obviously be lower than the advertised HP due to driveline losses, which are pretty significant. For instance, a 2015-17 Mustang GT is advertised at 425 HP (at the crank, all accessories driven, etc), but the same car generally puts out about 360 HP at the wheels.

I'm still amazed that my Mustang makes an honest 425 HP at the crank, yet averages 24.5 MPG. That is practically magic... :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 Honda Rebel- just sat on one in the showroom
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:23 pm 
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The big advantage of computer controlled engines is that they can optimize EVERYTHING taking into account engine speed throttle position etc. Compare that to the old tech when, for example, ignition was advanced crudely by a set of bobweights in the distributer in response only to RPM, and once full advance was reached, there was no further adjustment. Its no wonder modern engines produce so much more power out of less fuel than old engines.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 Honda Rebel- just sat on one in the showroom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:36 am 
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Motorcycle: 1986 Honda Rebel 450
Rebel: 450
Country: USA
State/Province: MD
City: Bowie
Elembytes wrote:
I just saw and sat on the new 2017 Honda Rebels at a Honda showroom in Springfield Missouri.

For someone like me who is 5'3' tall the new design stinks.

Then handlebars do NOT have the swoop back towards the rider, and it is a stretch to feel comfortable riding, let alone having good control of the vehicle.

I do like the new digital spedometer head. The fuel injection and water cooled looks good.

Don't like the key moved to the side but not too bad.

The dealer told me I could get handlebars more to my liking but at what cost? Also they told me the bike is more aimed at the Milenials.

I also found the fuel tank and it's "HIGH RISE hit me in the crotch and belly in a not so good position. Again I am only 5'3" so most others who are taller this will NOT be an issue.

Still sad that they changed things like they did. Would have been nice to upgrade the old cruiser style. But guess we are getting too old nod they are aiming for a new market.

Just FYI- thanks for letting me post my feelings and observations. :D


I've built a few of them here at the dealership, all 500s so far. I'm not a fan, but ill give some more in depth comparison. They remind me of the sportster nightster. Similar seating and handling.
I daily an 86 450 bobber as reference. The front end feels heavier anf the bars don't match the ride. The power is comparable to mine, but I feel like it has more punch down low and suffers up top. Efi and water cooling are a big leap forward. Digital display with clock and fuel gauge is also a selling point.
I was trying to post pictures of them how they come in crates from japan, but can't seem to post from my phone.

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1993 Honda Nighthawk 250
1984 Honda V65 Magna
1981 Yamaha XS400 Special
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 Post subject: Re: 2017 Honda Rebel- just sat on one in the showroom
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:32 am 
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Joined: Sep 17, 2003
Motorcycle: 5 Shadows, 3 Rebels
Rebel: 250
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City: Las VLX-as
steelgunna wrote:
The front end feels heavier


That must be the fat tire kicking in since the rake & trail are both shorter than the 450 (IIRC the 450 comes in at 5.3", a full inch more than the 500). The +2 raked tree also makes low speed maneuvers feel awkward compared to standard trees like the 450 has.

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Dismantling, sawzalling, and rattle canning does not make a bobber. That's called an "ANCHOR".
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